I would be very careful hiding a letterbox on National Park property. I've heard that geocachers have
been caught and fined for this. At the very least, make sure your name or address is not in the box so
that the rangers can't track you down and give you a hefty fine if they find it!

Anyone know what the National Park policy is about this?

--- In letterbox-usa@y..., kjcurd@a... wrote:
> Delicate Arch Trail
>
> Arches National Park just outside of Moab, Utah
>
> Moab Letterbox is located just off the Delicate Arch
> Trail in Arches National Park near Moab, Utah.

Hi From Dartmoor...

I was most alarmed and shocked to see the message from "ratpatrolhq" who
advocated stealth and deception when Letterboxing !

I hope that you won't mind a poor old Brit offering a 2c worth ..

I must start by saying that I (also) don't know the US Parks authorities
views on Letterboxing..but I certainly do know the UK Parks authority
views..and you can find 'em yourself on many UK sites...

The Dartmoor Parks folk even publish a short pamphlet on how to be a
responsible Letterboxer...It's called "Letterboxing with Moor Care"....see
below

I am saddened that anyone should be ashamed of, or "sneaky" about
Letterboxing...

It is a happy and naive hobby and certainly nothing to be guilty about...

If the US Parks folk are concerned ...then I am certain they are just
being careful with the national resource (and good for that too !) ..and
as usual with govt depts they are probably one-step behind new
innovations...

Especially as they assume many will become one-week-wonders....(er I think
the history of Letterboxing might prove to be a bit longer than that ! )

In the UK our National Parks folk do appreciate that Letterboxing is the
legitimate "pursuit of happiness" ...and WE don't even have those words
in our constitution..

(In fact we don't have a written constitution..but we are "real crazy"
over here as you are well aware I'm sure )

They make some sensible suggestions and a few safety rules and as (on the
whole) most boxers are responsible folk we are happy to abide by em...

We all love our heritage too and Letterboxing gets more folk out enjoying
it...I see no harm in doing that ! It's what the parks are for..surely !

Our lovely Dartmoor was even closed for a whole year because of the hoof
and mouth epidemic..and naturally we stayed away !

They can't build a wall around Dartmoor....the park rangers just put up a
few sheets of paper on posts in the ground..and us law abiding Brits (just
like law abiding Americans would do) ..we stayed away !

So I would say...please don't be ashamed to write a name/address/email in
your visitors book...it is far more honest and shows no desire to act in a
criminal way..especially in these sad times...

And if your visitors book is wet/damaged/full then the next boxer can
call/email you with the news..

If the US Parks folk need help understanding the hobby from a "Parks
perspective" ..then please show em a copy of the UK parks dept pamphlet...

I do hope that my 2c doesn't offend anyone...I just don't like to see
anyone advocate being anything other that legal, decent and honest...

....especially about our simple and harmless hobby of Letterboxing...

If responsible Letterboxers place boxes with care and don't damage the
heritage and maintain the boxes well ..then I can't imagine the grounds
for any actions...but that's just my opinion (caveat emptor)..

I would be pleased to hear of the US Parks views though ...

The Dartmoor Parks Leaflet in pdf format is on the National Parks
Authority (UK government) web site (npa.gov) below...

Note: It is printed on Euro A4 size paper so may not be easily printed on
US size paper...

It says a lot of nice things about Letterboxing and even examines the
risks of damage to our heritage..so it is quite worth the reading imho...

(What am I saying ? Can a govt dept have got something correct ? grin> I think it may be so...!!!)

http://www.dartmoor-npa.gov.uk/dnp/moorcare/pdf/letter.pdf

Happy Boxing

Graham Howard
aka The Moorland Wizard

>ratpatrolhq wrote :

>I would be very careful hiding a letterbox on National Park property.
>I've heard that geocachers have
>been caught and fined for this. At the very least, make sure your name or
>address is not in the box so
>that the rangers can't track you down and give you a hefty fine if they
>find it!
>
>Anyone know what the National Park policy is about this?

Hi folks...

Re the last message about UK Parks Authority views on Letterboxing and
downloading/reading the pamphlet..

I didn't say these things but...

To read the pdf file you will need the Adobe Acrobat reader (free download
from their site)

and (I must say) that using my slow (steam driven) modem it did take a
longinsh time to download...

Just thought I'd add those points..

It is worth trying though..imho

Graham Howard
aka The Moorland Wizard

--- In letterbox-usa@y..., "ratpatrolhq" wrote:
> I would be very careful hiding a letterbox on National Park
property. I've heard that geocachers have
> been caught and fined for this. At the very least, make sure your
name or address is not in the box so
> that the rangers can't track you down and give you a hefty fine if
they find it!
>
> Anyone know what the National Park policy is about this?
>

The park service apparently considers placing any object in a
national park to be a violation of law. A search of the NPS website
turned up 2 references in an internal newsletter that may give an
idea of their mindset.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
NATIONAL PARK SERVICE
MORNING REPORT


To: All National Park Service Areas and Offices

From: Division of Ranger Activities, Washington Office

Day/Date: Wednesday, March 21, 2001

.
.
.

OPERATIONAL NOTES



Geocaching - There is a new web-based activity called geocaching that
has affected several National Park Service areas. The Ranger
Activities Division asked Olympic NP SA Mike Butler to investigate.
Here's his report: Geocaching is an activity in which participants
hide a cache and take a position at the location using a GPS
receiver. The position is then published on the group's web site
with an invitation to search for the "treasure." Caches often contain
a notebook or log book and something the finder may take. The finder
is asked to put another item in the cache for others to discover and
will often report the find on the web site. Several caches have been
found in National Park Service areas. The webmaster for the site
(www.geocaching.com) has been contacted. He was very surprised that
geocaching is illegal in NPS areas, and understood NPS concerns about
the damage geocaching has and can cause to historic, archeological
and natural sites. He agreed to work with the Service to discourage
further geocaching activities in parks. Two related activities were
also discovered. Letterboxing (www.letterboxing.org) is a phenomenon
similar to geocaching in that a player takes directions from a web
site and uses those directions to find a hidden object. In
letterboxing, the directions come in the form of a riddle and the
hidden object is a stamp which the finder can use to stamp a piece of
paper to prove that he has visited the site. The web site showed the
location of at least two letterboxes in parks. The parks have been
notified, but the Service has not yet contacted the webmaster or game
managers. The Degree Confluence Project (www.confluence.org) is
another web-based activity where people try to visit various latitude
and longitude integer degree intersections and report their findings
on the web site. In this case, however, no objects are placed in the
ground, and there are no apparent regulatory violations in areas
where cross-country travel is allowed or where the confluence is not
on a protected site. There has been no attempt to contact the project
organizers. [Mike Butler, SA, OLYM]


-------------------------------------------------------

NATIONAL PARK SERVICE
MORNING REPORT


To: All National Park Service Areas and Offices

From: Division of Ranger Activities, Washington Office

Day/Date: Monday, March 11, 2002

INCIDENTS
.
.
.

02-056 - Lake Roosevelt NRA (WA) - Geocaching Incident

Rangers recently conducted an investigation into geocaching in the
park. Geocaching is a sport in which individuals or organizations
cache materials at particular locations, then provide the GPS
coordinates via the Internet so that other people can attempt to find
them. Some times caching entails digging, which presents obvious
problems in national parks. On February 27th, Patrick Hall asked
permission to bury a geocache within the park's historic Fort Spokane
Unit. During the conversation, Hall made several statements which
revealed that he'd previously been investigated by the US Fish and
Wildlife Service for this same activity, and that other geocaches
might already be buried within the park. Ranger Jaime Green
investigated and found that two caches had already been buried near
Fort Spokane by a geocache player known as "Fuzzybear." Additional
investigation uncovered a connection between "Fuzzybear" and Hall.
Hall was interviewed and admitted placing both caches. Parks
concerned about this activity within their boundaries may go to
http://www.geocaching.com and search for caches located in their
areas. [Chris Rugel, DR, Fort Spokane District, LARO, 3/8]

----------------------------------------------------------

I fear, as word gets out, that we'll see more of these
reports of 'illegal activity'. (I've never considered
myself a law breaker, yikes!)

Yesterday, while stamping in to the Cardinal's Rule
box in York River State Park, VA we noticed that the
park manager had left a note in the log saying that he
found out about 'our game' online and for now would
let it stand but that we all need to be aware of our
impact on the habitat and if he saw that impact he
would remove all boxes (and, I assume, let all other
state park managers know).

I think that he has a point, as one could clearly see
a path worn to the letterbox, so some damage had
obviously occured to that part of 'the habitat'. As I
find more boxes I'm wondering if we need to be more
aware of the habitat and perhaps place them closer to
the trail?


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At 03:08 AM 5/9/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>As I
>find more boxes I'm wondering if we need to be more
>aware of the habitat and perhaps place [boxes] closer to
>the trail?

Don Wilson, the pioneering geocacher here in the Gallatin Valley of Montana, has moved at least one cache because he began to see impact. I certainly think that's a good idea that should be applied to letterboxing as well. (Not all geocachers are irresponsible, by a long stretch!)

I've placed all my letterboxes (but one) either where they can be reached without leaving an established trail or an existing side path, or in bouldery areas just off-trail where there's no vegetation to disturb. ...My wife the microbiologist would dispute this, of course, and she's probably right. Certainly in deserts the absence of visible higher plants does NOT indicate the ("cryptogamic") soil is biologically sterile or that it won't be damaged by foot traffic.

I'm not sure how I knew I should avoid disturbable areas -- probably something I read on this list three years ago! -- but I think my choice of very rocky locations was instrumental in my obtaining local US Forest Service permission to place the boxes in the first place.

-Mark

Jay,

I was wondering if that was a possibility that could
be undertaken in the parks. I think your idea is
terrific and can't wait to visit!

I think that park rangers need to realize that just
the mere fact that there are trails means there is an
impact on the habitat...in other words, letterboxers
aren't criminal and actually bring out many people(and
some revenue) to parks they may have never had the
urge to visit before. I'll be honest and tell you
that I would have never gone to York River if not for
the boxes!

I hope your new series will open doors and take the
'criminal' label off this great hobby!
> Last fall, pre 9/11, I made contact with out local
> NP, Prince William Forest. They had agree to host a
> letterbox series within the park, similar to their
> Orienteering course. It will be a volunteer (me)
> administrated project and should not place any
> additional work on there already limited resources.
> The clues would be in a written form available in
> the parks visitor center. The corporation on the
> placement would limit impact and the clues at the
> visitor center would allow them to track volume. Now
> that spring has arrived in VA, I am going to pick up
> where I left off last Sept and try and get that
> series place. I will try and keep the list updated
> on the progress.


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